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Posted by Tynk on December 27, 2007, 8:58 am
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wrote:
>
> > > Are you planning to breed them or just have them in a mixed community
> > > tank?
> > > I haven't seen decent angels here on ages.
>
> > I've been wanting to get a line of pearlscales going for a while now,
> > it's just that they're hard to find around here....and most aren't
> > worthy of spawning.
>
> > * =C2=A0For some reason the angels I'm seeing here are pretty bad. Obvio=
us culls
> > like the fancy goldfish. Just poor quality fish all around. =C2=A0:(
>
> > As for the black pair at the shop....if they're still there later on
> > and free of parasties, I'll get them and surely spawn them.
> > However, of course thats *if* I end up getting them.
> > Black angels have a special place in my heart. I used to breed them
> > for years.
> > One of my favs...until I saw the pearls. =3D ) But the blacks are still
> > in the top 3 list.
>
> > * I think my favs have to be the gold's and marbles - if good quality. =
=C2=A0My
> > old gold's were almost orange on their backs... beautiful fish! =C2=A0 I=
haven't
> > seen the bleeding heart or blushing angels in ages either.
>
> > The male graumi is becoming a
>
> > > problem though. He's chasing all the other fish. =EF=BF=BDHe may have =
to go back
> > > to
> > > the store....... =EF=BF=BD :*(
>
> > If you have an un-used smaller tank, he can be treated the same as an
> > overly aggressive male Betta....kept in a warm isolation tank.
>
> > * That's crossed my mind. I have a spare 5g just sitting in the
> > sunroom.........
> > --
> > RM....
> > Zone 6. =C2=A0Middle TN USA
> > ~~~~ =C2=A0}<((((*> =C2=A0~~~ =C2=A0 }<{{{{(=C3=B6>
>
> That 5g just sitting empty looks like a great home for a cranky boy.
> =3D )- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Go pound that 5 gal up your ass Tynk, I am sure it along with a ton of
other crap will fit just fine!
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Posted by Tynk on December 27, 2007, 10:36 am
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> As for the black pair at the shop....if they're still there later on
> and free of parasties, I'll get them and surely spawn them.
Well,
I went backt o the shop 12-26-07.
The looked horrible!
Darting all over the place and covered in heavy slime coats.
All the Farlowellas and Whiptails that were in there (covered in Ich
terribly) were all gone. Not moved either.
This was only 3 days later. There's also no way they could have sold
that many either. No way. The floor and walls of the tank were thick
with farlowellas (stickfish). It is a very large tank mind you (over a
hundred gallons).
I think they probably died. There were also dying Angels in the tank
below (I recently bought 3 out this tank and are doing well since
12-15-07, but still in quarantine). I don't know what happened in
those few days, but sheesh!
Glad I waited, that's for sure.
I actually went in to see first see if the pair was still there (they
were), buy them, but put them on hold, but also ask them to move them
to this other tank they had left open (they had moved the medium
angels from it because it was too cloudy from cycling to see the
fish). Well that idea was flushed down the drain. =3D (
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Posted by Reel McKoi on December 27, 2007, 5:35 pm
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> As for the black pair at the shop....if they're still there later on
> and free of parasties, I'll get them and surely spawn them.
Well,
I went backt o the shop 12-26-07.
The looked horrible!
Darting all over the place and covered in heavy slime coats.
* There is some problem with the Angels. Do you remember that Angel disease
some years back? I wonder if something like that is going on again? None
them I see in the stores here look healthy and all look like culls.
All the Farlowellas and Whiptails that were in there (covered in Ich
terribly) were all gone. Not moved either.
This was only 3 days later. There's also no way they could have sold
that many either. No way. The floor and walls of the tank were thick
with farlowellas (stickfish). It is a very large tank mind you (over a
hundred gallons).
* They probably died. :-( All those sickly mollies were gone from the pet
store here when I went back a week later. I know they didn't sell them
either. They probably all died or were flushed.
I think they probably died. There were also dying Angels in the tank
below (I recently bought 3 out this tank and are doing well since
12-15-07, but still in quarantine). I don't know what happened in
those few days, but sheesh!
Glad I waited, that's for sure.
I actually went in to see first see if the pair was still there (they
were), buy them, but put them on hold, but also ask them to move them
to this other tank they had left open (they had moved the medium
angels from it because it was too cloudy from cycling to see the
fish). Well that idea was flushed down the drain. = (
* Better to be disappointed than bring home a disease or parasite......
--
RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>
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Posted by Tynk on December 28, 2007, 10:42 am
Please log in for more thread options
e:
> * There is some problem with the Angels. Do you remember that Angel diseas=
e
> some years back? =EF=BF=BDI wonder if something like that is going on agai=
n? =EF=BF=BD None
> them =EF=BF=BDI see in the stores here look healthy and all look like cull=
s.
Oh man do I!!
The angelfish virus (aka Discus plague, or Angel plague) is what
killed off all my DD black angel batch that I had been growing out
years ago..
I had just changed over types and was growing young ones to pair off
(late 1980's) when the virus hit the country.
We (hobbyists, breeders and shop keepers) didn't know what the heck we
were dealing with.
That was a horribly frustrating time for us all. It took a long time
until we knew that we were dealing with an imported virus that only
affected angels and discus, but could be spread by any fish (but not
affect them).
Basically the angelfish virus is AIDs for fish. It wipes out their
immune system. The fish usually end up dying from a secondary
infection (fin rot), and not the actual virus though.
I believe, and of course this is just my opinion, that the virus has
morphed, as they always do in someway sooner or later, and this is
what we're seeing in stores like Petsmart and others who get their
angels imported in (the virus originally came with angels from
Singapore).
Of course it could be an entirely new virus, but I'm not alone in
thinking it's just a morphed version of the original virus (but the
fish can fight it better).
The death rate is lower now, so I believe the fish are creating
antibodies to fight it.
The original pearlscales I have were imported (I found this out months
after buying them and being assured they local). They were bought as
youngsters and never showed any signs of anything.
Several months later I bought a pearlscale / gold marble cross and 14
days on the dot it started to show these symptoms that I have been
seeing in Petsmart's angels (all their stores).
The original virus had a 14 day incubation period. Just another
coincidence?
Heavy slime coat, jerking, hiding, darting, and lastly fin rot.
However, not so much hanging at the surface with their head up,
huddled all together, staying in this position as they jerk and dart.
That and the ability to fight it off better is the only difference I'm
seeing.
This is why I believe it's the same virus. Either the virus has
morphed, or the fish were finally able to create antibodies against
it.
Either way, it's very hard on the fish.
In most cases the young ones simply can't fight it and die, but the
older ones are able to fight it off better. Being in good health when
they come down with it also adds to their chances of survival.
In the late 1980's the virus was 100% for young angels and 85% fatal
for adult angels. The odds for Discus were better, as they were able
to fight it better.
The ones I have had that have comes down with this "new version", only
the adults survived.
I had a batch of dime sized babies at the time too..in another tank.
Some died right away (same incubation time until symptoms showed up),
some lasted a little longer, but a few survived. However, they did
just up and die within days of each other. I think their bodies
couldn't keep up the fight anymore.
The last survivor of the babies was the largest of the batch, and so
perfectly colored. It would have been a gorgeous fish.
>
> All the Farlowellas and Whiptails that were in there (covered in Ich
> terribly) were all gone. =EF=BF=BDNot moved either.
> This was only 3 days later. There's also no way they could have sold
> that many either. No way. The floor and walls of the tank were thick
> with farlowellas (stickfish). It is a very large tank mind you (over a
> hundred gallons).
>
> * They probably died. =EF=BF=BD:-( =EF=BF=BDAll those sickly mollies were =
gone from the pet
> store here when I went back a week later. =EF=BF=BDI know they didn't sell=
them
> either. They probably all died or were flushed.
>
> I think they probably died. There were also dying Angels in the tank
> below (I recently bought 3 out this tank and are doing well since
> 12-15-07, but still in quarantine). I don't know what happened in
> those few days, but sheesh!
> Glad I waited, that's for sure.
> I actually went in to see first see if the pair was still there (they
> were), buy them, but put them on hold, but also ask them to move them
> to this other tank they had left open (they had moved the medium
> angels from it because it was too cloudy from cycling to see the
> fish). =EF=BF=BDWell that idea was flushed down the drain. =EF=BF=BD=3D (
>
> * Better to be disappointed than bring home a disease or parasite......
> --
>
> RM....
> Zone 6. =EF=BF=BDMiddle TN USA
> ~~~~ =EF=BF=BD}<((((*> =EF=BF=BD~~~ =EF=BF=BD }<{{{{(=EF=BF=BD>
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Posted by Reel McKoi on December 28, 2007, 3:34 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> * There is some problem with the Angels. Do you remember that Angel
> disease
> some years back? �I wonder if something like that is going on again? �
> None
> them �I see in the stores here look healthy and all look like culls.
Oh man do I!!
The angelfish virus (aka Discus plague, or Angel plague) is what
killed off all my DD black angel batch that I had been growing out
years ago..
I had just changed over types and was growing young ones to pair off
(late 1980's) when the virus hit the country.
We (hobbyists, breeders and shop keepers) didn't know what the heck we
were dealing with.
That was a horribly frustrating time for us all. It took a long time
until we knew that we were dealing with an imported virus that only
affected angels and discus, but could be spread by any fish (but not
affect them).
Basically the angelfish virus is AIDs for fish. It wipes out their
immune system. The fish usually end up dying from a secondary
infection (fin rot), and not the actual virus though.
I believe, and of course this is just my opinion, that the virus has
morphed, as they always do in someway sooner or later, and this is
what we're seeing in stores like Petsmart and others who get their
angels imported in (the virus originally came with angels from
Singapore).
Of course it could be an entirely new virus, but I'm not alone in
thinking it's just a morphed version of the original virus (but the
fish can fight it better).
The death rate is lower now, so I believe the fish are creating
antibodies to fight it.
The original pearlscales I have were imported (I found this out months
after buying them and being assured they local). They were bought as
youngsters and never showed any signs of anything.
Several months later I bought a pearlscale / gold marble cross and 14
days on the dot it started to show these symptoms that I have been
seeing in Petsmart's angels (all their stores).
The original virus had a 14 day incubation period. Just another
coincidence?
Heavy slime coat, jerking, hiding, darting, and lastly fin rot.
However, not so much hanging at the surface with their head up,
huddled all together, staying in this position as they jerk and dart.
That and the ability to fight it off better is the only difference I'm
seeing.
This is why I believe it's the same virus. Either the virus has
morphed, or the fish were finally able to create antibodies against
it.
Either way, it's very hard on the fish.
In most cases the young ones simply can't fight it and die, but the
older ones are able to fight it off better. Being in good health when
they come down with it also adds to their chances of survival.
In the late 1980's the virus was 100% for young angels and 85% fatal
for adult angels. The odds for Discus were better, as they were able
to fight it better.
The ones I have had that have comes down with this "new version", only
the adults survived.
I had a batch of dime sized babies at the time too..in another tank.
Some died right away (same incubation time until symptoms showed up),
some lasted a little longer, but a few survived. However, they did
just up and die within days of each other. I think their bodies
couldn't keep up the fight anymore.
The last survivor of the babies was the largest of the batch, and so
perfectly colored. It would have been a gorgeous fish.
=====================================
I sure looks similar as far as the fin rot and ratty fins go. They all look
sickly to me. Like second rate culls. That's what I'm seeing in the
stores. PetSupermarket isn't even getting any in. Something is going on out
there with the angels. I'm sure if it's another disease like last time the
truth will seep out and everyone will know.
I also wonder why you can't get fancy female guppies anymore. All I see are
males in all the stores. I'm wondering if we'll soon just see all male
platys and swords and mollies as well.
BTW, all my new fish are doing well. :-)
--
RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>
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