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Newbie Seeking Advice on Water

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Subject Author Date
Newbie Seeking Advice on Water Neil Webster 12-29-2007
Posted by Neil Webster on December 29, 2007, 3:22 am
Please log in for more thread options
Hello everyone,

I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
question.

My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is very
bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
light).

Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.



Posted by AquariumFatasies on December 29, 2007, 8:58 am
Please log in for more thread options
> Hello everyone,
>
> I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. =A0This is=
a
> long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> aquariums (or is it aquaria?). =A0It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular gla=
ss
> tank. =A0I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> tropical fish. =A0I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books=

> from my local library. =A0However, I have not found an answer to this
> question.
>
> My house is supplied with water from a very old well. =A0I have the water
> going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is ve=
ry
> bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and=

> these do not get rid of it all. =A0They help for our (human) purposes, but=
we
> still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> cooking. =A0The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that =
is
> filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different=

> filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> light).
>
> Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? =A0I am concerned=

> about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
you may have to add...........

So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck


Posted by Neil Webster on December 30, 2007, 1:37 am
Please log in for more thread options
> Hello everyone,
>
> I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
> long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> question.
>
> My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
very
> bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> light).
>
> Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
you may have to add...........

So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck


Thanks for the advice. I am still in the planning stages, still need to buy
several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. I plan on
setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
(or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). I also am still
looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that may
change). I will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some of the
necessary items like stand and water test kits. I just don't want to start
with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO water
and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
(well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). Thanks.



Posted by Tynk on December 30, 2007, 10:19 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello everyone,
>
> > I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is =
a
> > long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with=

> > aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glas=
s
> > tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> > tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> > from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> > question.
>
> > My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> > going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
> very
> > bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) a=
nd
> > these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but =
we
> > still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> > cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that i=
s
> > filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several differe=
nt
> > filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> > light).
>
> > Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> > about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> > bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> > Thank you.
>
> Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
> etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
> water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
> RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
> is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
> supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
> 99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
> necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
> get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
> PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
> you may have to add...........
>
> So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
> and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
> water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
> intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
> overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
> days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
> the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
> working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
> away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
> you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
> withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
> fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
> get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
> unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
> the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
> toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
> away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck
>
> Thanks for the advice. =EF=BF=BDI am still in the planning stages, still n=
eed to buy
> several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. =EF=BF=BDI pla=
n on
> setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
> (or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). =EF=BF=BDI also a=
m still
> looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that ma=
y
> change). =EF=BF=BDI will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some =
of the
> necessary items like stand and water test kits. =EF=BF=BDI just don't want=
to start
> with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO wat=
er
> and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
> (well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). =EF=BF=
=BDThanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
Hi there.
Being that you are working with (in the fish world), quite a small
tank.
Being a newbie you may think differently. =3D )
The bigger the tank, the more room for error.
A small tank is less forgiving, so it would be wise to keep this tank
lightly stocked until you get some experience under your belt.
I applaud you for researching first. That's so great! Believe it or
not, way too many people just get a tank, fill it with water and bags
of fish the same day. Then they wonder why their fish all died. =3D (
Your idea of Tetras is fine, however, the type of tetra matters in
your situation.
Neons are not a good tetra for newer tanks, and absolutely not for
cycling with.
Other than that, they're pretty hardy. I've had many batches do quite
well in very hard, city well water. Our town's water supply is from
several deep wells around the town, not private wells.
Don't believe the old myth about 1 inch of fish oer gallon of water,
as it's quite outdated, and frankly doesn't work for most species.
Think of adding a 10" oscar to a 10g tank, or a couple of 5" Red Devil
males. Not going to work.
However it works perfectly with thin bodied, inch long fish that have
no territory requirements (like guppies).
When it comes to fishless cycling, what type are you thinking about
doing...or have you not gotten that far yet?
There's a couple of bacteria starter products out there now with the
correct type of bacteria in it. Depending on what side of the world
you're on....Here in the states..BioSpira made by Marineland.
UK...Bactinettes. I'm hoping these have made it across the pond or
soon will be. Then maybe the prices will go down.
Unfortunately, the other products out there that claim to be starters
have the wrong nitrifying bacteria in them and don't really do much of
anything to "start" the cycling.
They have a later stage bacteria (nitrobacter bacteria), where as
BioSpira has the first stage...the start up bacteria (nitrospira).
Ones that don't do much are:
BioZyme, StartZyme, StressZyme, Cycle, BacterBoost....etc...
These may be helpfull after the process has already started, but isn't
the purpose to help start it up. How these companies can get away with
claiming what they do makes me very mad. They're misleading the
public. However, they can because their product contains *A* bacteria
in the cycling process. (I believe there are 3 types....but it's been
years since I read the study).
The easiest way to cycle your tank would be to use BioSpira (or
Bactinettes if you can find them). You set the tank up, add BioSpira,
and fully stock your tank the next day. You then treat the tank as a
fully seasoned tank and after the first week, start up your normal
weekly water changes.
This product is great, and truly does what it claims.
However, it must be refrigerated properly. If left to warm or gets
frozen, the live bacteria dies and the product becomes useless (it
looks like clumpy brown stuff in water when dead). It should appear
like cloudy water with little teeny bits in it.
It's also hard to find because not too many stores have a refrigerator
(most have freezers only). It's also not cheap.
A 1 oz pack (like what you'd need) cost between $10-15 (around IL,
USA). IMO, completely worth it. I've used it several times, with 100%
great results.
You can also go a slower, but easy route too, cycling with household
ammonia (plain, no perfumes or additives of any kind).
Did you find info in your researching about the different types of
cycling?
I can email you links if you need any info.
Welcome to the hobby!
=3D )



Posted by AquariumFatasies on December 30, 2007, 10:27 am
Please log in for more thread options
:
>
>
>
>
> > > Hello everyone,
>
> > > I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This i=
s a
> > > long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience wi=
th
> > > aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular gl=
ass
> > > tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> > > tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several book=
s
> > > from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> > > question.
>
> > > My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water=

> > > going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water i=
s
> > very
> > > bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad)=
and
> > > these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, bu=
t we
> > > still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and=

> > > cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that=
is
> > > filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several diffe=
rent
> > > filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet=

> > > light).
>
> > > Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerne=
d
> > > about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> > > bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> > > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> > > Thank you.
>
> > Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
> > etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
> > water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
> > RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
> > is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
> > supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
> > 99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
> > necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
> > get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
> > PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
> > you may have to add...........
>
> > So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
> > and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
> > water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
> > intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
> > overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
> > days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
> > the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
> > working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
> > away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
> > you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
> > withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
> > fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
> > get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
> > unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
> > the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
> > toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
> > away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck
>
> > Thanks for the advice. =EF=BF=BDI am still in the planning stages, still=
need to buy
> > several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. =EF=BF=BDI p=
lan on
> > setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fis=
h
> > (or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). =EF=BF=BDI also=
am still
> > looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that =
may
> > change). =EF=BF=BDI will be going to local PetSmart this week to get som=
e of the
> > necessary items like stand and water test kits. =EF=BF=BDI just don't wa=
nt to start
> > with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO w=
ater
> > and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish=

> > (well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). =EF=
=BF=BDThanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Hi there.
> Being that you are working with (in the fish world), quite a small
> tank.
> Being a newbie you may think differently. =C2=A0=3D )
> The bigger the tank, the more room for error.
> A small tank is less forgiving, so it would be wise to keep this tank
> lightly stocked until you get some experience under your belt.
> I applaud you for researching first. That's so great! Believe it or
> not, way too many people just get a tank, fill it with water and bags
> of fish the same day. Then they wonder why their fish all died. =3D (
> Your idea of Tetras is fine, however, the type of tetra matters in
> your situation.
> Neons are not a good tetra for newer tanks, and absolutely not for
> cycling with.
> Other than that, they're pretty hardy. I've had many batches do quite
> well in very hard, city well water. Our town's water supply is from
> several deep wells around the town, not private wells.
> Don't believe the old myth about 1 inch of fish oer gallon of water,
> as it's quite outdated, and frankly doesn't work for most species.
> Think of adding a 10" oscar to a 10g tank, or a couple of 5" Red Devil
> males. Not going to work.
> However it works perfectly with thin bodied, inch long fish that have
> no territory requirements (like guppies).
> When it comes to fishless cycling, what type are you thinking about
> doing...or have you not gotten that far yet?
> There's a couple of bacteria starter products out there now with the
> correct type of bacteria in it. Depending on what side of the world
> you're on....Here in the states..BioSpira made by Marineland.
> UK...Bactinettes. I'm hoping these have made it across the pond or
> soon will be. Then maybe the prices will go down.
> Unfortunately, the other products out there that claim to be starters
> have the wrong nitrifying bacteria in them and don't really do much of
> anything to "start" the cycling.
> They have a later stage bacteria (nitrobacter bacteria), where as
> BioSpira has the first stage...the start up bacteria (nitrospira).
> Ones that don't do much are:
> BioZyme, StartZyme, StressZyme, Cycle, BacterBoost....etc...
> These may be helpfull after the process has already started, but isn't
> the purpose to help start it up. How these companies can get away with
> claiming what they do makes me very mad. They're misleading the
> public. However, they can because their product contains *A* =C2=A0bacteri=
a
> in the cycling process. (I believe there are 3 types....but it's been
> years since I read the study).
> The easiest way to cycle your tank would be to use BioSpira (or
> Bactinettes if you can find them). You set the tank up, add BioSpira,
> and fully stock your tank the next day. You then treat the tank as a
> fully seasoned tank and after the first week, start up your normal
> weekly water changes.
> This product is great, and truly does what it claims.
> However, it must be refrigerated properly. If left to warm or gets
> frozen, the live bacteria dies and the product becomes useless (it
> looks like clumpy brown stuff in water when dead). It should appear
> like cloudy water with little teeny bits in it.
> It's also hard to find because not too many stores have a refrigerator
> (most have freezers only). It's also not cheap.
> A 1 oz pack (like what you'd need) cost between $10-15 (around IL,
> USA). IMO, completely worth it. I've used it several times, with 100%
> great results.
> You can also go a slower, but easy route =C2=A0too, cycling with household=

> ammonia (plain, no perfumes or additives of any kind).
> Did you find info in your researching about the different types of
> cycling?
> I can email you links if you need any info.
> Welcome to the hobby!
> =3D )- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Get real TYNK, your out in left field for the most part telling this
person they need to sdo this and do that and have to have all these
supplements..........He is on the right track and in no need fo hainv
to play chemistry student and then get stuck having to dealwith this
and that. If folks learned to do it the right way from scratch when
problems occur they are not scratching their ass and wondering what
they did is wrong as there is so many less variable to
dealwith....................There has been a heap of folks left down
with dead fish and bio spira as there is no way it is controlled
instorage andshipipng and its not a miricle additive by any
means..............YOu seemto be about theonlyo ne around that
suggests fully stocking a tank all in the same day.its conyuter to
what really is the acceptable process in todays day and age. Perhaps
its time for you to read [posts instead of answering posts as your
really quite clueless..........A tank will cycle just fine with adding
just a touch of flaked or pelleted fish food.............then monitor
the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels.they will rise, and then the
ammonia and nitrite will drop to zero, and your bio filter is then
established..............Stay away from the miricle crap in containers
as it will bite you one day and its good to know how to do it the
"real and right" way if you ruin into a problem its much easier to
figure out what screwed up...............But Tynk would not know that.

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