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Posted by Tynk on January 4, 2008, 10:19 am
Please log in for more thread options There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.
However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
current and learn about it.
Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
claim.
Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process-and-Different-Cycling-Methods&id=308136
http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf
http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55.1.485?cookieSet=1&journalCode=micro
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html
Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
If you can't, don't bother replying.
Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.
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Posted by Tynk on January 8, 2008, 10:02 am
Please log in for more thread options
There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.
However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
current and learn about it.
Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
claim.
Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process ...
http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf
http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=3D953
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55 ....
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html
Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
If you can't, don't bother replying.
Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.
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Posted by Tynk on January 8, 2008, 11:04 am
Please log in for more thread options
Roy,
I haven't posted for a few days.
You haven't posted anything on this board for 4 days.
The very hour I post something, you pounce on me.
You are a fraud.
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Posted by Tynk on January 8, 2008, 11:43 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
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Posted by Randy Webb on January 10, 2008, 12:55 am
Please log in for more thread options Tynk said the following on 1/4/2008 10:19 AM:
> There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.
That is true with just about any hobby, not limited to aquariums.
> However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
> current and learn about it.
Whether you think it is good or bad. But, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
> Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
> noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
> claim.
Using websites to back up claims isn't something I look up to. My
background/work is computer related and 99% of what you can find on the
web about it is complete, utter, useless junk.
> Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
> containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
> nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
>
>
>
http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process-and-Different-Cycling-Methods&id=308136
That one is written by a person who works for a retailer trying to sell
the product. Of course they are going to want you to try it.
> http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf
I don't do PDF files so I can't comment on that one.
I stopped trying to view the links after that.
> http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp
>
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953
>
>
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55.1.485?cookieSet=1&journalCode=micro
>
> http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
>
> http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html
I don't trust 99% of what is found on AOL members personal space. I
spent 10 years teaching people how to make webpages on AOL so I have a
slanted/skewed view of them (even my own pages on AOL).
> Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
> against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
> If you can't, don't bother replying.
Your first mistake would be to blanket assume a statement is made out of
ignorance.
But, let me ask you something. You don't want anybody to post personal
opinions unless they can "add some proof". Fine. Let me give you an
example then.
My wife, when I met her, had two fish. A goldfish and a plecostomus in a
30 gallon tank. Both fish were 8 years old. The only chemicals that she
had *ever* put in that tank is what came with it when she bought it.
When the additives ran out, she stopped using them. The water in that
tank was pure tap water. When the tank got low, due to evaporation, she
would simply top it off with tap water - untreated. The only equipment
on the tank was the HOB filter that came with the tank (in a kit), the
lights, and an air pump. When she moved the tank to my house, she put
the two fish in a two gallon trash can full of tank water. Took
everything else to my house, set it up, pulled a water hose in from the
front yard, filled the tank up, put her two fish back in it and plugged
the filter and air pump back up. No additives what so ever. Those two
fish lived another 2 years. What finally killed them was she put them in
my non-cholorinated swordtail tank and both were dead in two days.
Another example? Water changes. The 55 gallon tank that I am trying,
futilely, to grow plants in, was set up for 2 years and not once did I
*ever* do a water change. The only thing I ever did was dechlorinate my
tap water and fill it back up from evaporation.
Another example? Stocking levels. I had a 10 gallon tank that had more
fish in it than a 30 gallon should have in it. The LFS where I was
shopping at the time believed I had a 55 gallon tank and drove 40 miles
to actually see it because he didn't believe that many fish could live
in a 10 gallon tank.
Now, nowhere on the web will you find anybody that will tell you that it
will work. I wouldn't even recommend any of that to a new person to the
hobby. But, I know it can be done because I have seen and done it myself.
To simply tell people "Don't post your opinions if you can't provide a
website source to back it up" is plain wrong.
> Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.
I read about half of them, none of them really taught me anything other
than a way to try to short circuit something that I have done for 20
years without knowing what they were trying to tell me.
--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
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