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Freshwater Aquaria - Freshwater aquaria in general.
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Posted by Richard Sexton on March 12, 2005, 12:47 pm
Please log in for more thread options >Actually, I don't see a contradiction. There has been research in the
>area of pH which supports the theory that our preoccupation with pH shock
>has been greatly exagerated, and the real problem is osmotic shock. What
>has muddied the findings of various hobbyists is that water of different
>osmotic pressure is typically of different pH, due to the buffering
>effect of the carbonates. If the osmotic pressures are comparable, then
>I suspect that pH is of considerably less importance than doctrine
>suggests.
>
>In regards to the reverse effect (respritory stress during the soft to
>hard water transition), I doubt there exists a Killifish which would be
>exposed to the water hardness I'm thinking of, so the author would
>certainly not have encountered this as a matter of routine, and would
>have had to have been conducting specific tests using fish which can
>exist in very hard water.
I dunno, 900ppm LA tapwater and 1200ppm rural ontario water which
a lot of people I know endure is hard enough I'd say. Putting some
salt into the soft water 24 hours before transitiob would help
any potejtial osmotic shock.
>>
>> His original letters have been preserved through time and I
>> coaxed some old family photos from his grandson to annotate them
>> and you can see them here:
>>
>> http://new.killi.net/articles/by_Author/Scheel/
>
>
>Thanks for that. In my all too brief occupation of running fish dept.s,
>I tried introducing Killis to (or back to) the Ottawa market. There was
>a surge of interest but I then left the trade for a different line of
>work and I don't know if my successor continued with it. Some of the
>fish were stunning, but my challenge was to bring the price down enough
>for a wider acceptance.
If you're getting fish Oliver please let me know. I'd quite probably
drive up there and get some.
--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org
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Posted by NetMax on March 12, 2005, 1:13 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> >Actually, I don't see a contradiction. There has been research in the
>>area of pH which supports the theory that our preoccupation with pH
>>shock
>>has been greatly exagerated, and the real problem is osmotic shock.
>>What
>>has muddied the findings of various hobbyists is that water of
>>different
>>osmotic pressure is typically of different pH, due to the buffering
>>effect of the carbonates. If the osmotic pressures are comparable,
>>then
>>I suspect that pH is of considerably less importance than doctrine
>>suggests.
>>
>>In regards to the reverse effect (respritory stress during the soft to
>>hard water transition), I doubt there exists a Killifish which would be
>>exposed to the water hardness I'm thinking of, so the author would
>>certainly not have encountered this as a matter of routine, and would
>>have had to have been conducting specific tests using fish which can
>>exist in very hard water.
>
> I dunno, 900ppm LA tapwater and 1200ppm rural ontario water which
> a lot of people I know endure is hard enough I'd say. Putting some
> salt into the soft water 24 hours before transitiob would help
> any potejtial osmotic shock.
*expletive deleted* 1200ppm? I'd say 600ppm is very hard water. There
are Killis which can exist in 1200ppm (67dgH)???
Re: salt, yup (within reason), as the salt contributes to the osmotic
pressure, though it would not register as part of the hardness, and you
would need a TDS measurement.
Tell me more about these hard water Killis *interest perking up*.
--
www.NetMax.tk
>
>>>
>>> His original letters have been preserved through time and I
>>> coaxed some old family photos from his grandson to annotate them
>>> and you can see them here:
>>>
>>> http://new.killi.net/articles/by_Author/Scheel/
>>
>>
>>Thanks for that. In my all too brief occupation of running fish
>>dept.s,
>>I tried introducing Killis to (or back to) the Ottawa market. There
>>was
>>a surge of interest but I then left the trade for a different line of
>>work and I don't know if my successor continued with it. Some of the
>>fish were stunning, but my challenge was to bring the price down enough
>>for a wider acceptance.
>
> If you're getting fish Oliver please let me know. I'd quite probably
> drive up there and get some.
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org
|
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Posted by Richard Sexton on March 12, 2005, 3:58 pm
Please log in for more thread options >*expletive deleted* 1200ppm? I'd say 600ppm is very hard water. There
>are Killis which can exist in 1200ppm (67dgH)???
>
>Re: salt, yup (within reason), as the salt contributes to the osmotic
>pressure, though it would not register as part of the hardness, and you
>would need a TDS measurement.
>
>Tell me more about these hard water Killis *interest perking up*.
Nothing unusual about this. There was a commercial breeder up in
Creemore than had two hosues fill of tanks of nothing but killifish.
He sent 4000 a month to Eck-will. All bred in 1200 ppm Creemore tapwater.
Of the 30species he bred none were from hard water, all were soft
water killies. He bred discus too but had so soften the water for them.
LA tapwater was 875-900 ppm when I lived there and I bred killies
in that just fine tooo. I did get an RO filter later on but that was
just to get rid of the chloramine.
I haven't etsted my water here but it's harder than LA tap bases
on what it leaves behinf when it evaporates and bahaves like that
stuff in Creemore, that is youlet it sit and CaCO3 precipitates
out overnight.
There are killies fount in hard alkaline water - pupfish of the
genus Cyprinodon.
I keep primarily Aphyosemions.
--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org
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Posted by NetMax on March 12, 2005, 6:23 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> >*expletive deleted* 1200ppm? I'd say 600ppm is very hard water.
> >There
>>are Killis which can exist in 1200ppm (67dgH)???
>>
>>Re: salt, yup (within reason), as the salt contributes to the osmotic
>>pressure, though it would not register as part of the hardness, and you
>>would need a TDS measurement.
>>
>>Tell me more about these hard water Killis *interest perking up*.
>
> Nothing unusual about this. There was a commercial breeder up in
> Creemore than had two hosues fill of tanks of nothing but killifish.
> He sent 4000 a month to Eck-will. All bred in 1200 ppm Creemore
> tapwater.
>
> Of the 30species he bred none were from hard water, all were soft
> water killies. He bred discus too but had so soften the water for them.
>
> LA tapwater was 875-900 ppm when I lived there and I bred killies
> in that just fine tooo. I did get an RO filter later on but that was
> just to get rid of the chloramine.
>
> I haven't etsted my water here but it's harder than LA tap bases
> on what it leaves behinf when it evaporates and bahaves like that
> stuff in Creemore, that is youlet it sit and CaCO3 precipitates
> out overnight.
>
> There are killies fount in hard alkaline water - pupfish of the
> genus Cyprinodon.
>
> I keep primarily Aphyosemions.
Thanks for the info Richard. There is a standard list of fish we
recommend for folks on well water, and it never occured to me to research
Killifish which could make that list.
--
www.NetMax.tk
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org
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>area of pH which supports the theory that our preoccupation with pH shock
>has been greatly exagerated, and the real problem is osmotic shock. What
>has muddied the findings of various hobbyists is that water of different
>osmotic pressure is typically of different pH, due to the buffering
>effect of the carbonates. If the osmotic pressures are comparable, then
>I suspect that pH is of considerably less importance than doctrine
>suggests.
>
>In regards to the reverse effect (respritory stress during the soft to
>hard water transition), I doubt there exists a Killifish which would be
>exposed to the water hardness I'm thinking of, so the author would
>certainly not have encountered this as a matter of routine, and would
>have had to have been conducting specific tests using fish which can
>exist in very hard water.