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Goldfish and Koi Discussions - Care and keeping of goldfish, koi, carp.
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Posted by on May 15, 2008, 3:18 pm
Please log in for more thread options I post every 2 years or so with a new/unidentifiable issue with my one
fish, but I read more often and I appreciate the advise from the
regulars.
Here's my situation: I have one 8-inch 12 yo common goldfish in 29
gallons. It's unheated, but we're in Southern California, so he
hovers around 70-74 degrees (a little warm for comfort, in my
opinion). Marineland Emperor 280 filter/bio-wheel and a very large
circular airstone; light gravel and artificial plants. Ammonia is 0,
trace amounts of nitrates and nitrites recently (maybe I just need a
new test kit). Algae builds up enough to require a good scraping on
the sides of the tank every 4 weeks or so (too warm!).
Over the past several months, he started resting on the bottom. When
feeding time came, we would instantly energize and shoot to the top to
eat, but it seemed obvious that he felt "heavy" and it was a chore.
I tried to address any water quality issues (even though testing was
not conclusive) by adding some Biozyme and upping the changes for a
while, but nothing happened. I also increased the frozen shrimp in
his diet (usually eats flakes) thinking it might help a swim bladder
problem, and I salt after every change.
A few days ago, he started swimming around like nothing had ever
happened (aside from a red mark on his belly from resting for so
long). But, now I see the beginning stages of "floating" problems,
e.g. it looks like his belly is going up first sometimes, and it seems
like a struggle to get to the bottom.
So, I tried to feed him some peas, which he usually only eats 1 or 2
of at a time (and stupidly gave him a small piece of bran). After
looking around online a bit, I think I'm going to try the enteritis
treatment and fast him for 4-5 days with consistent salt treatments.
Since he's the only thing in the tank, I was just going to leave him
there.
I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on what I'm dealing with here.
Some photos to see how the fish himself is doing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/furriness/2494719639/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/furriness/2494719119/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/furriness/2494719807/
Thanks,
Furry
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Posted by on May 16, 2008, 11:14 am
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I think you are on the right track.
no food for a week minimum
a single salt dip will cause purging, then a bit of salt 1Teas per 5 gallons
clean, clean, clean water. tub to tub if necessary to get the fish into clean
water
keep the water temp steady, 75-78 is perfect for GF.
when you do start feeding, give ONLY wet seafood, chopped RAW shrimp, fish,
whatever... no grains. and feed in TINY amounts as GF are "grazers" that eat a
little bit at a time, but graze all day. DONT CLEAN THE ALGAE off all the walls
of
the tank, only the front. algae gives the fish some soft stuff to eat. it also
is
the equivalent of a "veggie filter" to the extent that is slurps up ammonia and
gets
rid of nitrates. makes a healthier tank.
my dogs eat raw meaty bone diet. they make tiny poopies. I think if GF get
natural
diet of small raw wet tiny things their digestion will work so much better and
they
wont have big poops either. below is from my website.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems
Floating problems are complex. If it occurs only after feeding, see below.
Females full of eggs can have balance problems.
Dropping a fish can result in swim bladder damage.
Toxins can cause swim bladder problems.
Cranial kidney and floating
It can also be due to problems with regulation of the air bladder. This organ
can be
damaged by medications and treatments before you even bought your fish. One is
"tranquilizers" put into the water when fish are shipped. The damage does not
show
up right away.
OK.. here is the deal. Jo Ann and I been in discussion about floating and "swim
bladder" disease. I have never been able to get past the fact that the
explanation
doesnt fit the observations.
>The fish floats upside down.
>The swim bladder is at the "top" of the fish under the back.
>Necropsies of "floaters" show the swim bladder is full.
I can see where a fish that cannot submerge, or cant get off the bottom may have
a
dysfunctional swim bladder, but it doesnt explain "upside down" I was reading in
Stoskopf (p. 127) "Gas-forming enteritis can mimic disease of the swim bladder.
In
addition to the development of abnormal swimming postures, bulges from gas-filled
bowel can cause the clinician to misidentify the bowel as the swim bladder. "
Now THIS would explain a fish being upside down. The belly has a greater
quantity of
gas than the swim bladder and the fish flips over. IN addition, I have seen this
"bulging" of sides of the fish and especially at the back of the fish leading to
that
"dumpy" look. The fish is often curved, as if muscles on one side are not
operating
(on the side that is bulging out) and the muscles of the side curved in seems to
be
permanently contracted. Most likely is that the gas so fills up one side that
it
pushes that side up and it is impossible for the fish to straighten out. Think
of
those of us who get "gas" and how contorted we can be trying to find a position
to
avoid the pain. In support of the pain theory, in those fish I have made little
weighted jackets for, the fish seemed to be in discomfort at the bottom of the
tank.
Altho subtle in a tank, the pressure might also be painful. In fish with egg
binding, the eggs are often infected, and this could lead to gas formation as
well,
also with the fish flipping over.
Ingrid
On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:18:56 -0700 (PDT), furmanster@gmail.com wrote:
It's unheated, but we're in Southern California, so he
>hovers around 70-74 degrees (a little warm for comfort, in my
>opinion). Marineland Emperor 280 filter/bio-wheel and a very large
>circular airstone; light gravel and artificial plants. Ammonia is 0,
>trace amounts of nitrates and nitrites recently (maybe I just need a
>new test kit). Algae builds up enough to require a good scraping on
>the sides of the tank every 4 weeks or so (too warm!).
>
>Over the past several months, he started resting on the bottom. When
>feeding time came, we would instantly energize and shoot to the top to
>eat, but it seemed obvious that he felt "heavy" and it was a chore.
>I tried to address any water quality issues (even though testing was
>not conclusive) by adding some Biozyme and upping the changes for a
>while, but nothing happened. I also increased the frozen shrimp in
>his diet (usually eats flakes) thinking it might help a swim bladder
>problem, and I salt after every change.
>
>A few days ago, he started swimming around like nothing had ever
>happened (aside from a red mark on his belly from resting for so
>long). But, now I see the beginning stages of "floating" problems,
>e.g. it looks like his belly is going up first sometimes, and it seems
>like a struggle to get to the bottom.
>
>So, I tried to feed him some peas, which he usually only eats 1 or 2
>of at a time (and stupidly gave him a small piece of bran). After
>looking around online a bit, I think I'm going to try the enteritis
>treatment and fast him for 4-5 days with consistent salt treatments.
>Since he's the only thing in the tank, I was just going to leave him
>there.
>
>I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on what I'm dealing with here.
>
>Some photos to see how the fish himself is doing:
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/furriness/2494719639/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/furriness/2494719119/
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/furriness/2494719807/
>
>Thanks,
>Furry
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Posted by on May 17, 2008, 4:17 pm
Please log in for more thread options Thanks for the tips (I already have your website in my favorites!). I
know having some flora in the tank is good (I leave the algae in the
corners and on the filter intakes, etc), but I hadn't heard about
leaving it on the walls of the tank. I have ammonia well under
control, but I'll leave more algae anyway, he does like to suck at the
softer algae on the intakes.
When you say "raw" shrimp, I presume that the frozen brine shrimp I
get at the pet store is good?
On May 16, 8:14 am, dr-s...@wi.rr.com wrote:
> I think you are on the right track.
> no food for a week minimum
> a single salt dip will cause purging, then a bit of salt 1Teas per 5 gallons
> clean, clean, clean water. tub to tub if necessary to get the fish into clean
water
> keep the water temp steady, 75-78 is perfect for GF.
> when you do start feeding, give ONLY wet seafood, chopped RAW shrimp, fish,
> whatever... no grains. and feed in TINY amounts as GF are "grazers" that eat a
> little bit at a time, but graze all day. DONT CLEAN THE ALGAE off all the
walls of
> the tank, only the front. algae gives the fish some soft stuff to eat. it
also is
> the equivalent of a "veggie filter" to the extent that is slurps up ammonia
and gets
> rid of nitrates. makes a healthier tank.
> my dogs eat raw meaty bone diet. they make tiny poopies. I think if GF get
natural
> diet of small raw wet tiny things their digestion will work so much better and
they
> wont have big poops either. below is from my website.
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Posted by on May 17, 2008, 7:19 pm
Please log in for more thread options
no.. I am talking about human quality but small, cheap, raw shrimp and chop em
up.
feed small amounts. I am now completely convinced that most of the problems
with GF
digestion and "floating" is due to feeding dry processed foods. Feeding the most
natural food for GF is best, and they eat zooplankton, like larval insects,
worms,
snails, daphnia. It is just that they are very expensive to feed, altho a little
goes a long way.
http://www.certifiedaquascapecontractor.com/ponds.php
and this is especially true to for fancy GF. The reason I am not thrilled with
frozen whole "fish" food is how it is raised and that it may be imported from
places
that dont care about contamination. by getting human quality food (like I do
for our
dogs) I am have some guarantee the food is wholesome. Ingrid
On Sat, 17 May 2008 13:17:54 -0700 (PDT), furmanster@gmail.com wrote:
>When you say "raw" shrimp, I presume that the frozen brine shrimp I
>get at the pet store is good?
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>The swim bladder is at the "top" of the fish under the back.
>Necropsies of "floaters" show the swim bladder is full.