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Posted by micklebring on September 17, 2005, 6:12 pm
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OK, first off, I'm new to this so don't tell me off. :)
I got a 30l Biorb (with light and heater) for my Birthday and I've
followed the instructions and set it up and popped some Java ferns in
('cos apparently I can't fail with them?) and I've put three Cardinal
Tetras in. I know they're a little bit sensitive for a beginner but I
really really want to have a small (12ish) school of them swimming
around.
Anyway, before I got them I read up about them and they like soft
water. No problemo except my water's so hard I have to chip it out of
the taps. My mum lives in a soft water area and, allegedly, so does my
sister in law. So, I invested in a 15l brewers bucket with lid (low and
wide so it won't fall over in the car) and got 15l from Mum's and then
15l from the SIL. So, one week in and one of them starts acting pretty
strange. Mostly they bob around hiding behind the plants but this
morning the smallest of the three was flitting backwards and forwards
like a demented thing. "Odd" thinks I so I took a trip to the shop and
invested in some test kits, got home, tested the water and nearly
fainted. I'd like to think my little fishes are really hard 'cos
they're still alive.
Still, I went to the SIL's (she's nearest) and got a bucket of water
and tested it when I got it home. My SIL's idea of soft obviously isn't
the same as mine so I went to my Mum's and tested her water and it's so
soft the KH failed to register and the GH is around 5-6. I popped some
SafeGuard in, warmed the water and did a 1/3rd water change. The fish
have calmed down a lot which I'm taking as a good sign. I've just
retested the water (about 2 hours after change) and I've got...
KH 3
GH 11
pH 7.6
NO3 10ppm
NH3 0.3mg/l
Given the ammonia was off the scale before I started that's a huge
improvement but I'm aware it's got a way to go but the tank is still
cycling so obviously there's going to be some.
Finally, the questions.
1) Is the pH high 'cos the tank's cycling/sick or should I do something
to bring it down?
2) If so, what? According to
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gcardinal.html they like it around 6
although it seems they're not too fussy up to 7.
3) I presume I'll need to do another partial change. How often should I
be testing/changing water?
4) Is a 1/3rd too stressdful? ie. Should I do more smaller ones?
5) Unrelated question. When/how long should I have the tank light on
for? They appear to lose their colour if it's off for too long.
6) Is there anything else I can do to make the little fellas (Not sure
they are fellas but they're too small to tell at the moment) life
easier? I know they're happier in a bigger school but I know I can't
put any more in the tank 'til it's finished cycling.
7) Am I right in thinking once the tank's finished cycling I can relax
a bit and stop worrying about my fish like a new father and start
enjoying them?
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Posted by Gill Passman on September 17, 2005, 6:39 pm
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micklebring wrote:
> OK, first off, I'm new to this so don't tell me off. :)
>
> I got a 30l Biorb (with light and heater) for my Birthday and I've
> followed the instructions and set it up and popped some Java ferns in
> ('cos apparently I can't fail with them?) and I've put three Cardinal
> Tetras in. I know they're a little bit sensitive for a beginner but I
> really really want to have a small (12ish) school of them swimming
> around.
>
> Anyway, before I got them I read up about them and they like soft
> water. No problemo except my water's so hard I have to chip it out of
> the taps. My mum lives in a soft water area and, allegedly, so does my
> sister in law. So, I invested in a 15l brewers bucket with lid (low and
> wide so it won't fall over in the car) and got 15l from Mum's and then
> 15l from the SIL. So, one week in and one of them starts acting pretty
> strange. Mostly they bob around hiding behind the plants but this
> morning the smallest of the three was flitting backwards and forwards
> like a demented thing. "Odd" thinks I so I took a trip to the shop and
> invested in some test kits, got home, tested the water and nearly
> fainted. I'd like to think my little fishes are really hard 'cos
> they're still alive.
>
> Still, I went to the SIL's (she's nearest) and got a bucket of water
> and tested it when I got it home. My SIL's idea of soft obviously isn't
> the same as mine so I went to my Mum's and tested her water and it's so
> soft the KH failed to register and the GH is around 5-6. I popped some
> SafeGuard in, warmed the water and did a 1/3rd water change. The fish
> have calmed down a lot which I'm taking as a good sign. I've just
> retested the water (about 2 hours after change) and I've got...
>
> KH 3
> GH 11
> pH 7.6
> NO3 10ppm
> NH3 0.3mg/l
>
> Given the ammonia was off the scale before I started that's a huge
> improvement but I'm aware it's got a way to go but the tank is still
> cycling so obviously there's going to be some.
>
> Finally, the questions.
>
> 1) Is the pH high 'cos the tank's cycling/sick or should I do something
> to bring it down?
>
> 2) If so, what? According to
> http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gcardinal.html they like it around 6
> although it seems they're not too fussy up to 7.
>
> 3) I presume I'll need to do another partial change. How often should I
> be testing/changing water?
>
> 4) Is a 1/3rd too stressdful? ie. Should I do more smaller ones?
>
> 5) Unrelated question. When/how long should I have the tank light on
> for? They appear to lose their colour if it's off for too long.
>
> 6) Is there anything else I can do to make the little fellas (Not sure
> they are fellas but they're too small to tell at the moment) life
> easier? I know they're happier in a bigger school but I know I can't
> put any more in the tank 'til it's finished cycling.
>
> 7) Am I right in thinking once the tank's finished cycling I can relax
> a bit and stop worrying about my fish like a new father and start
> enjoying them?
>
Your ammonia is way too high...the tank is starting to cycle...with
ammonia this high and a pH at your level it is toxic so do a water
change - 30% is not unreasonable...monitor your ammonia and nitrites
daily to make sure that they are not toxic...if they are continue with
the water changes or you will lose the fish. If you have a friend or
friendly LFS try and get some mature filter from them to seed the tank...
I presume you are in the UK as you have posted to this group so the only
"bacteria adding" product would be "Cycle" or similar - the US
apparently now have some great stuff not available to us yet ;-(
Plants are good - try increasing the number.
When cycling a tank I test daily or more often if a crisis is hit...
pH7.6 should be OK - mine is between 7.5 and 8. The key is not to go for
fish that are used to being kept at much lower pH - your LFS should be
able to tell you the pH that they have locally and hopefully
acclimatised the fish to. IMO if you need to start messing with water
and pH it can end in tears unless you are a very dedicated experienced
hobbiest (which I am not). Try suiting the fish to your local water it
is really easier in the end - I keep a number of fish with no probs with
my pH.
Lighting should only affect the plant growth - fish don't really care if
the lights are on or not...the colour loss is most likely down to the
water quality issues...
The main thing you can do is get the water quality spot on....check
daily and if ammonia and nitrites are toxic do the water change using an
appropriate water conditioner that removes/neutralises chlorine,
chloramine and heavy metals. I also believe that these bio-orbs suggest
changing the filter medium every few weeks - ignore that - it kills off
your bacteria....
Once your tank is fully stocked and cycled in theory you should be able
to stop worrying and enjoy them as long as you keep up a good
maintenance routine of water changes and filter cleaning (in tank not
tap water) and don't add too many fish...problem is you've just
started...just wait til MTS sets in - lol
gill
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Posted by micklebring on September 17, 2005, 7:32 pm
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Another trip to Mum's for more water tomorrow then. Thanks for the
reply.
I am in the UK and I'm about 20-30 minutes from Viscum in Barnburgh who
appear very friendly and well recommended. I prefer to post in UK
groups where I can, otherwise the colonials across the water relish
recommending all sorts that you can't get over here. I'm just waiting
for them to invent an all in one electronic water tester/monitor and
I'll import them. Something you can hang on the side of the tank that
beeps when there's a problem. I've been like Beaker off the Muppets
today with test tubes and colour charts.
Care to recommend any plants in particular or doesn't it really matter?
If I fail with these 3 tiddlers I will re-assess my choice of fish and
get LFS advice BEFORE I purchase. Lesson learned but I'll persevere
with these 'cos it's not their fault I didn't ask before I bought
them..
I've read about the colour loss on 2 or 3 web sites and it seems a bit
odd it coming back when I turned the light on if it was the water.
Obviously the water probs don't help though.
The BiOrb comes with a cartridge filter and some oversized gravel that
is a bit like pummice in its texture. I believe the theory is that the
bacteria live in the rocks rather than the cartridge. They're intended
to be Aquariums for idiots (Made for me!) but I'm inclined to agree
with the logic of keeping the cartridge.
MTS? What's that? I'm fortunate in that SWMBO won't let me have more or
bigger tanks so I should manage to stay the right side of bankruptcy. :)
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Posted by Gill Passman on September 18, 2005, 5:07 am
Please log in for more thread options
micklebring wrote:
> Another trip to Mum's for more water tomorrow then. Thanks for the
> reply.
>
> I am in the UK and I'm about 20-30 minutes from Viscum in Barnburgh who
> appear very friendly and well recommended. I prefer to post in UK
> groups where I can, otherwise the colonials across the water relish
> recommending all sorts that you can't get over here. I'm just waiting
> for them to invent an all in one electronic water tester/monitor and
> I'll import them. Something you can hang on the side of the tank that
> beeps when there's a problem. I've been like Beaker off the Muppets
> today with test tubes and colour charts.
>
> Care to recommend any plants in particular or doesn't it really matter?
>
> If I fail with these 3 tiddlers I will re-assess my choice of fish and
> get LFS advice BEFORE I purchase. Lesson learned but I'll persevere
> with these 'cos it's not their fault I didn't ask before I bought
> them..
>
> I've read about the colour loss on 2 or 3 web sites and it seems a bit
> odd it coming back when I turned the light on if it was the water.
> Obviously the water probs don't help though.
>
> The BiOrb comes with a cartridge filter and some oversized gravel that
> is a bit like pummice in its texture. I believe the theory is that the
> bacteria live in the rocks rather than the cartridge. They're intended
> to be Aquariums for idiots (Made for me!) but I'm inclined to agree
> with the logic of keeping the cartridge.
>
> MTS? What's that? I'm fortunate in that SWMBO won't let me have more or
> bigger tanks so I should manage to stay the right side of bankruptcy. :)
>
I've also got very hard water - one day I'll buy a kit to test it...I
just know by the fact that I have to chisel the lime of the kettle every
few weeks - lol
With the exception of my Malawi tank (which I harden further) most of my
tanks have driftwood which softens it slightly. I'm certainly able to
keep a wide range of fish in the tanks without any noticeable problems
with the water hardness from my tap - it is the same everywhere locally
so the fish I buy have acclimitised - there are some exceptions to what
I would purchase without taking further measures to soften the water. To
give you some ideas the following smaller fish are doing well in my hard
tap water. There are lots of other small fish as well of course:-
Glowlight Tetras
Neon Tetras (not suitable for a new tank)
Harlequins (Rasboras)
Dwarf Gouramis
Peacock Gobies
Fantail Guppies
Panda Cories
Rummy Nose Tetras
Platys
As for plants it's really a matter of taste but a good idea to get true
aquatic plants - some sold as aquatic are more like house plants and I
find don't do too well - look pretty but need frequent replacement.
Examples of some good plants are Java Ferns and Swords - all are readily
available in the SE of England but hopefully will be in your part of the
country as well.
MTS is Multiple Tank Syndrome - we started with one 15 gall and this
rapidly increased to a total of 6 tanks (including 2 200L 4 footers) - I
am now forbidden anymore - although hubbie was very suprised when the
7th went back in it's box after I'd finished using it as a QT so maybe I
shouldn't give up hope - lol
Gill
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Posted by Neil Croft on September 18, 2005, 10:24 am
Please log in for more thread options
> MTS is Multiple Tank Syndrome
I think I should get the hang of looking after one properly before I even
consider another, regardless of the unlikelihood of it being allowed. :)
ps. It's me on my proper address. Can't be doing with www news.
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>
> I got a 30l Biorb (with light and heater) for my Birthday and I've
> followed the instructions and set it up and popped some Java ferns in
> ('cos apparently I can't fail with them?) and I've put three Cardinal
> Tetras in. I know they're a little bit sensitive for a beginner but I
> really really want to have a small (12ish) school of them swimming
> around.
>
> Anyway, before I got them I read up about them and they like soft
> water. No problemo except my water's so hard I have to chip it out of
> the taps. My mum lives in a soft water area and, allegedly, so does my
> sister in law. So, I invested in a 15l brewers bucket with lid (low and
> wide so it won't fall over in the car) and got 15l from Mum's and then
> 15l from the SIL. So, one week in and one of them starts acting pretty
> strange. Mostly they bob around hiding behind the plants but this
> morning the smallest of the three was flitting backwards and forwards
> like a demented thing. "Odd" thinks I so I took a trip to the shop and
> invested in some test kits, got home, tested the water and nearly
> fainted. I'd like to think my little fishes are really hard 'cos
> they're still alive.
>
> Still, I went to the SIL's (she's nearest) and got a bucket of water
> and tested it when I got it home. My SIL's idea of soft obviously isn't
> the same as mine so I went to my Mum's and tested her water and it's so
> soft the KH failed to register and the GH is around 5-6. I popped some
> SafeGuard in, warmed the water and did a 1/3rd water change. The fish
> have calmed down a lot which I'm taking as a good sign. I've just
> retested the water (about 2 hours after change) and I've got...
>
> KH 3
> GH 11
> pH 7.6
> NO3 10ppm
> NH3 0.3mg/l
>
> Given the ammonia was off the scale before I started that's a huge
> improvement but I'm aware it's got a way to go but the tank is still
> cycling so obviously there's going to be some.
>
> Finally, the questions.
>
> 1) Is the pH high 'cos the tank's cycling/sick or should I do something
> to bring it down?
>
> 2) If so, what? According to
> http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gcardinal.html they like it around 6
> although it seems they're not too fussy up to 7.
>
> 3) I presume I'll need to do another partial change. How often should I
> be testing/changing water?
>
> 4) Is a 1/3rd too stressdful? ie. Should I do more smaller ones?
>
> 5) Unrelated question. When/how long should I have the tank light on
> for? They appear to lose their colour if it's off for too long.
>
> 6) Is there anything else I can do to make the little fellas (Not sure
> they are fellas but they're too small to tell at the moment) life
> easier? I know they're happier in a bigger school but I know I can't
> put any more in the tank 'til it's finished cycling.
>
> 7) Am I right in thinking once the tank's finished cycling I can relax
> a bit and stop worrying about my fish like a new father and start
> enjoying them?
>